OpenZFS on OS X

Hey guys, so with the chatter about APFS from WWDC and the revelations that it's NOT the filesystem we hoped for in most regards, I'm convinced to go the ZFS boot path now. I'm absolutely sick of corruption and I'm really sick of Apple's apathetic nature towards core functionality that should be considered paramount in filesystem design, etc. at this point.

So boot is now in `master` and we can config it with `./configure --enable-boot` as I understand it. Do we need to update https://openzfsonosx.org/wiki/ZFS_on_Boot so that we're not unclear about things like the wrong branch, etc?

Are there some gotchas that should be discussed? Can we do some streamlining of the process of initial setup?

What about upgrades to the OS, can we get screwed doing standard dot updates or major updates? Are there special considerations to consider in our backup regiment? For example, maybe we should keep a hot backup as HFS+ (or dare I say, APFS) sitting around in case of potential issues and so we can boot easily for problem resolution? Etc...

Just wanted to open up a place for those of us who are using it or are interested in it can have a place to discuss the topics and considerations.

I missed the chatter from WWDC. Anything particularly interesting?

stumble wrote:I missed the chatter from WWDC. Anything particularly interesting?

I'm not sure it was mentioned at WWDC but I've now read that APFS snapshots will only be used locally. Backups to external drives will use time-machine as it currently is which is quite disappointing.

Ditto on the @ilovezfs remarks. I've also heard that crash consistency / protection is still iffy and that Apple primarily is relying on superior hardware vs proper checksumming, which really concerns me. I just don't have a lot of faith (esp after hearing some of these things) in a file system that has been pushed out to market like this without a lot of positive technical feedback and testing.

abc123 wrote:

stumble wrote:I missed the chatter from WWDC. Anything particularly interesting?

I'm not sure it was mentioned at WWDC but I've now read that APFS snapshots will only be used locally. Backups to external drives will use time-machine as it currently is which is quite disappointing.

Thanks. Interesting. I WOULD be very disappointed by this too, if I was interested in a proprietary file system. As it is, I think there are pros and cons to APFS being woeful. Maybe we'll get some more people over to ZFS.

ylluminate wrote:Ditto on the @ilovezfs remarks. I've also heard that crash consistency / protection is still iffy and that Apple primarily is relying on superior hardware vs proper checksumming, which really concerns me. I just don't have a lot of faith (esp after hearing some of these things) in a file system that has been pushed out to market like this without a lot of positive technical feedback and testing.

I guess they've given up on most of the server market, and I guess a lot of consumers really don't care about data safety, currently, although I hope that changes. Also, of course, Apple has some interest in forcing data into the cloud — maybe not enough to deliberately produce a bad filesystem, but enough to not care too much one way or the other.

Ditto about the frustration with Apple for always making deliberate decisions for poor filesystem design. E.g., relying on superior hardware vs. checksumming user data really stinks of pride and laziness, esp. when they have sooo much $$$.

Anyway, as a ZFS newbie I'm also really interested in all of these points as well (which haven't really been answered yet as the discussion veered into APFS, WWDC, etc.):

So boot is now in `master` and we can config it with `./configure --enable-boot` as I understand it. Do we need to update https://openzfsonosx.org/wiki/ZFS_on_Boot so that we're not unclear about things like the wrong branch, etc?

Are there some gotchas that should be discussed? Can we do some streamlining of the process of initial setup?

What about upgrades to the OS, can we get screwed doing standard dot updates or major updates? Are there special considerations to consider in our backup regiment? For example, maybe we should keep a hot backup as HFS+ (or dare I say, APFS) sitting around in case of potential issues and so we can boot easily for problem resolution? Etc...