Now where do we go?

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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ylluminate » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:00 am

How do you know this @ilovezfs? Are you privy to Zevo codebase at present? Believe you me, I'm no Zevo fanboi. I just know what Don was doing, have his phone number, and count him a friend. You mention he's on OpenZFS, I can believe that (I probably should give him a shout as it's been some months since we've chatted), but I know nothing at present about MacZFS since my nightmares with it around two years ago and watching it straggle over the last couple years. Zevo came way out in front of it. Is Don working on bridging MacZFS and OpenZFS? I doubt that based on some things I understand about the ecosystem. Again, I reiterate, it would definitely be nice to see Zevo freed at this point now that GreenBytes has seemingly left this as abandonware, but don't be so black and white in your judgements when you don't have all of the details. Be pragmatic. I'd be happy to use MacZFS and convert my pools over if the stability and performance is there. I like to use what *works*.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ilovezfs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:10 am

ylluminate wrote:How do you know this @ilovezfs? Are you privy to Zevo codebase at present? Believe you me, I'm no Zevo fanboi. I just know what Don was doing, have his phone number, and count him a friend. You mention he's on OpenZFS, I can believe that (I probably should give him a shout as it's been some months since we've chatted), but I know nothing at present about MacZFS since my nightmares with it around two years ago and watching it straggle over the last couple years. Zevo came way out in front of it. Is Don working on bridging MacZFS and OpenZFS? I doubt that based on some things I understand about the ecosystem. Again, I reiterate, it would definitely be nice to see Zevo freed at this point now that GreenBytes has seemingly left this as abandonware, but don't be so black and white in your judgements when you don't have all of the details. Be pragmatic. I'd be happy to use MacZFS and convert my pools over if the stability and performance is there. I like to use what *works*.

I know this because ZEVO uses pool version 28, and upstream has been on 5000 for some time now. Also the license would require ZEVO to release their modified sources of anything from illumos, which was not part of the ZEVO CDDL release. Plus, if ZEVO were using upstream illumos code, the ZFS ACLs would not be entirely absent from ZEVO files. ZEVO shoves ACLs into an Apple xattr and completely ignores ZFS ACLs. The upstream is simply not illumos.

As for black-and-white, I would sing a different song if ZEVO were entirely open source.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ilovezfs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:12 am

As for Don, if he were willing to contribute to the OpenZFS based new MacZFS, that would be quite welcome. As it is, he is now working on Solaris with upstream OpenZFS illumos code.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ylluminate » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:26 am

I was referring to the present codebase with regards to not knowing what is going on. But this is a pretty pointless discussion. Neither of us like where Zevo is now, so having a debate about what coulda', shoulda', etc. is moot. Like I said, if there was a clear path from Zevo to another ZFS solution that was proven with regards to stability and potentially has superior performance, you'll see me there tomorrow. BUT I haven't seen the evidence of this yet. In part this is due to not having the time to research what is going on right now in the current ZFS world as I'm head down in projects. The other part is that I'm not seeing any clear status reports of where things are right now and how well they've been tested. If I could see that A) I won't have down time converting directly over and B) stability is pretty high, and C) the developers are responsive and popping out needed updates in a timely manner, then I'll move on.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ilovezfs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:28 am

ylluminate wrote:Is Don working on bridging MacZFS and OpenZFS?

They are already "bridged." The new MacZFS uses OpenZFS as its upstream. That means all of the non-operating-system specific ZFS code in illumos is a subset of the MacZFS code now. In terms of the actual code going forward, this means changes to the illumos source repository are able to be merged directly into the MacZFS source code repository via git merge.
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ZFS pool version 28 compatibility

Post by grahamperrin » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:33 am

ilovezfs wrote:… 28, solely to accommodate ZEVO.… 


That's misleading.

In the OpenZFS wiki, please see http://open-zfs.org/wiki/FAQ#Compatibility

Pool version 28 is essentially:

  • compatible with all OpenZFS distributions
  • compatible with Oracle Solaris
  • not usable with stable MacZFS-74.3.0.

Some of the coverage of the OpenZFS launch announcement remarked upon the fragmentation that is associated with ZFS. OpenZFS does much to address concerns such as those.

Isolate-and-die posts are probably not the best way to promote OpenZFS.
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Re: ZFS pool version 28 compatibility

Post by ilovezfs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:39 am

It's not misleading at all. And as a ZEVO groupie you are probably the last person on the planet I would listen to about this.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by grahamperrin » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:53 am

ilovezfs wrote:… ZEVO shoves ACLs into an Apple xattr


ZEVO does what Apple's operating system does.

I would sing a different song if ZEVO were entirely open source.


Do you wish the death of Apple and of OS X for not being entirely open source?

Is the word shove used by Apple in open source code that relates to ACLs?

Does insistence upon open source lead to an entirely open attitude?

A simple reply to what's currently unanswered in the MacZFS area will help me, and others with an interest in MacZFS, to progress things – to use the ZFS-OSX issue tracker for issues, and so on.

… a ZEVO groupie …


Again, please encourage use of the MacZFS discussion group.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ilovezfs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:56 am

Since in every thread you appear to have a pathological need to insert yourself and have the last word, it is pointless to respond to your absurdities.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ylluminate » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:53 pm

@ilovezfs who are you on the maczfs mailing list?
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