Now where do we go?

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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:32 am

… the dev version of MacZFS … instant crash … kernel panics …


The information is appreciated, but for problems whilst using MacZFS: please discuss in the MacZFS area; can you provide links? Thanks.

For ZEVO Community Edition there's Compatibility with other ZFS systems but that's more for released versions of other products.

For development of things other than ZEVO, the ZEVO support forum is not the best place.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:03 am

grahamperrin wrote:
… the dev version of MacZFS … instant crash … kernel panics …


The information is appreciated, but for problems whilst using MacZFS: please discuss in the MacZFS area; can you provide links? Thanks.

For ZEVO Community Edition there's Compatibility with other ZFS systems but that's more for released versions of other products.

For development of things other than ZEVO, the ZEVO support forum is not the best place.

I understand that this is your opinion. However, unless GreenBytes starts communicating with the community, I think this is a perfectly reasonable place to ask and answer such questions about where someone might choose to go from ZEVO and what the costs and benefits of such alternatives might be. People here are at least as likely to know about ZEVO-MacZFS issues as people over in MacZFS land are to know about MacZFS-ZEVO issues.

Frankly, if I were a product manager for ZEVO I would be quite pleased to have someone point out that a ZEVO pool is about 1000% more usable with ZEVO at the moment than it is with MacZFS dev version.

As for links, here is the github page that explains how to build MacZFS dev version:
https://github.com/zfs-osx

I put some stuff in my .bash_profile to make the syntax more similar to ZEVO:
Code: Select all
PATH=$PATH:/Users/joe/bin
alias iz='initialize-zfs'
alias port='sudo port'
# MacPorts Installer addition on 2013-06-01_at_18:18:10: adding an appropriate PATH variable for use with MacPorts.
export PATH=/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:$PATH
# Finished adapting your PATH environment variable for use with MacPorts.

zpool() {
   MYPWD="$(pwd)"
   cd /Users/joe/src/zfs
   bash zpool.sh "$@"
   cd "$MYPWD"
}

zfs() {
   MYPWD="$(pwd)"
   cd /Users/joe/src/zfs
   bash cmd.sh zfs "$@"
   cd "$MYPWD"
}

Be sure to use the absolute path to your pool's file vdev if you use my helper functions.

And here's /Users/joe/bin/initialize-zfs
Code: Select all
#!/bin/bash
cd /Users/joe/src/spl
rsync -ar --delete module/spl/spl.kext/ /tmp/spl.kext/
chown -R root:wheel /tmp/spl.kext
kextload -r /tmp/ -v /tmp/spl.kext
cd /Users/joe/src/zfs
rsync -ar --delete module/zfs/zfs.kext/ /tmp/zfs.kext/
chown -R root:wheel /tmp/zfs.kext
kextload -r /tmp/ -v /tmp/zfs.kext/
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:25 am

Thanks, I'm familiar with that link.

I meant, a link to MacZFS discussion of the crashes or panics with MacZFS.

In the zfs-macos Google group for MacZFS, the last mention of ZEVO was a post by me on on 2013-03-21 https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... |sort:date

In the MacZFS-devel Google group for MacZFS, there are no mentions of crashes or panics with ZEVO.

Again,

> The information is appreciated

– but it's more appropriate to discuss use of MacZFS in the MacZFS area. Thanks.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:40 am

grahamperrin wrote:Thanks, I'm familiar with that link. I meant, a link to MacZFS discussion of the crashes or panics with MacZFS.

Oh, I see. Everything I said about crashes and panics was based on my own testing for the last several hours with a ZEVO file vdev imported into MacZFS dev version. I could go into detail about each of them, but mostly they seem to be obviously known issues revolving around the lack of basic components like xattr. Many may not be ZEVO specific. As they say in the README: "Test this with the expectation of a kernel panic."

The devs' mailing list, to which I see you've posted, is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... czfs-devel
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Links

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:48 am

lundman wrote:Do we have any more information on this, I take it there has been something changed? …


Welcome to the forum :-)

There's a quote from GreenBytes at viewtopic.php?p=4820#p4820 – I'll catch up with you later in IRC but (sorry) I don't have more to share on that topic.

Side note (ilovezfs is there already): File-based vdevs
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by monkeyfoahead » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:32 pm

ilovezfs wrote:
monkeyfoahead wrote:How long until Zevo volumes can be imported you think?

File-based pools from ZEVO can already be imported by the dev version of MacZFS. They do not work with Finder at all: instant crash. The ZEVO Spotlight directories and files cause all sorts of problems. Expect to get lots of kernel panics. Changing file ownership (chown) does not work, so it is only barely usable if all files are owned by root, and you work from the Terminal as root or constantly use sudo. If an application launches an open-file/Finder window, you will get a kernel panic (since Finder doesn't work). An xterm seems to cause fewer kernel panics overall than Terminal.app. Based on what I see, it will be a long time before something like a raidz hard-drive based zpool from ZEVO can be imported by MacZFS.

My testing was done on OS X 10.8.3 without changing the ZEVO pool's pool version, so I have no idea how things might be different on OS X 10.8.2, or with the pool version chzanged to 5000, or both.


Thank you for the excellent reply.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by lundman » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:26 pm

Oh, I see. Everything I said about crashes and panics was based on my own testing for the last several hours with a ZEVO file vdev imported into MacZFS dev version. I could go into detail about each of them, but mostly they seem to be obviously known issues revolving around the lack of basic components like xattr. Many may not be ZEVO specific. As they say in the README: "Test this with the expectation of a kernel panic."


Oh ah, I didn't think of making sure it works with ZEVO. I was just sitting around looking for something to do. I'll do this next. Please feel free to create github issues if you find them, makes us look like a real project!

Edit:

Having just tried it, the ZEVO import itself seems fine, no panics or such issues. Clearly it is missing xattr though, but is fully usable in my simple test case.
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Re: Now where do we go?

Post by ilovezfs » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:01 pm

lundman wrote:
Oh, I see. Everything I said about crashes and panics was based on my own testing for the last several hours with a ZEVO file vdev imported into MacZFS dev version. I could go into detail about each of them, but mostly they seem to be obviously known issues revolving around the lack of basic components like xattr. Many may not be ZEVO specific. As they say in the README: "Test this with the expectation of a kernel panic."


Oh ah, I didn't think of making sure it works with ZEVO. I was just sitting around looking for something to do. I'll do this next. Please feel free to create github issues if you find them, makes us look like a real project!

Edit:

Having just tried it, the ZEVO import itself seems fine, no panics or such issues. Clearly it is missing xattr though, but is fully usable in my simple test case.

Yes it imports fine, as I had said. But try messing around with chown. In my tests the command always hung necessitating a forced export via reboot and upon reimporting the pool, the original owner would still own the file. Trying to open a video in QuickTime from Finder would reliably result in panic, though the video could be opened from Terminal without issue. Furthermore, I often could not export the pool because mds would latch onto the Spotlight files created by Spotlight when the pool was running under ZEVO and mds would refuse to let go or submit to kill so export would be a no-go, again necessitating forced export via reboot. Trying to navigate to the System Preferences pane for Spotlight to add the pool to the Privacy list would reliably result in panic, and mdutil -i off would just give the typical error about not being able to make any sense out of the indexing state. My favorite bug (I doubt ZEVO specific) was that using "mv" to move a file from the pool to the HFS+ root filesystem would actually create a 0 sized file with the same name on the HFS+ filesystem and delete the original from the zfs pool. Awesome! That one definitely merits a github write up. For your tests are you in 10.8.2 or 10.8.3? I was in VMware with 10.8.3.
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Possible link

Post by grahamperrin » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:37 pm

ilovezfs wrote:… messing around with chown …


A consideration: Attempting changes where changes are impossible
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Re: Possible link

Post by ilovezfs » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:46 pm

grahamperrin wrote:
ilovezfs wrote:… messing around with chown …


A consideration: Attempting changes where changes are impossible

I don't follow. Are you suggesting perhaps that MacZFS dev version does not support permissions change yet?
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