editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

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editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by grahamperrin » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:37 am

Spun off from viewtopic.php?p=1262#p1262

daniel.jozsef wrote:To me it seemed that ZEVO has been sort of "dropped", with the for-pay version discontinued, and the whole thing thrown out into the open source world as the community edition.


It's partly open source, please see:


Community support is much more open, collaborative and productive under GreenBytes than it was under Ten's Complement:

  • fewer gripes with phpBB here than with the old Zendesk for ZEVO, YMMV
  • most of the old Zendesk content was not published
  • and so on.

If I was mistaken and Greenbytes will actually put effort into ZFS, that sounda pretty cool... But I wonder, is that a fact, or only wishful thinking?


It's fact – the efforts are both recent and ongoing.

Posts from GreenBytes to this public forum seem always timely, and what I have seen beyond this forum is entirely reassuring.
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by grahamperrin » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:24 am

At viewtopic.php?p=1278#p1278

hbp112358 wrote:If this is a community Edition why not release it under BSD license or another restricted for profit license and allow the kernel hackers out in the world to help them develop their product? just because it's the more advanced of the 2 functional zfs clients for OSX in pool revision does not restrict the communities willingness to assist a company into fruition.

My personal belief on why tenscomplement died was their unwillingness to work with the community as a whole to see their project through. there is allot of talent willing to donate a tremendous amount of time and energy into this however having the code for both the GUI and the backend locked away with 5 to 20 folks reviewing it and updating it is not anywhere as fast or efficient as releasing it as a community project and allowing input.

just my 2 cents worth been doing this a while now, Beta'd this project when it was under Ten.

HBP


At viewtopic.php?p=1277#p1277

hbp112358 wrote:If this is a community Edition why not release it under BSD license and allow the kernel hackers out in the world to help them develop their product? just because it's the more advanced of the 2 functional zfs clients for OSX in pool revision does not restrict the communities willingness to assist a company into fruition.

My personal belief on why tenscomplement died was their unwillingness to work with the community as a whole to see their project through. there is allot of talent willing to donate a tremendous amount of time and energy into this however having the code for both the GUI and the backend locked away with 5 to 20 folks reviewing it and updating it is not anywhere as fast or efficient as releasing it as a community project and allowing input.

just my 2 cents worth been doing this a while now, Beta'd this project when it was under Ten, have done alpha and beta testing for many other projects, including drivers for the nvidia on the osx (non Mac) intels.

HBP


I'd like to see more of ZEVO open source in due course.

Would BSD licensing be compatible with CDDL? (I have no idea.)

I reckon the transfer to GreenBytes was more about enabling improvements to ZEVO and ZFS, than about the death of a company.

Whilst our contributions to the beta forum are no longer available to us, I don't mourn the loss. I privately bookmarked and sometimes cached my content but now:

  • it's nice to have a relatively clean sheet
  • I sense that community content here is far greater than we had during the beta.

(And UserVoice (for the beta) was ghastly!)

The Ten's Complement page draws attention to the open source ZFS community over at MacZFS that is looking for developers (kernel and file system).

The big pictures probably include a wish to make technical debt explicit before going open, and so on …
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future beta testing

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:09 pm

At viewtopic.php?p=1445#p1445

chriswayg wrote:… Will there be another beta …


I'm not aware of any plans for a public or private alpha or beta, but I'd welcome the opportunity to participate.
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MacZFS: towards ZFS pool version 28

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:46 am

At viewtopic.php?p=2762#p2762

leafmuncher wrote:… Are there plans for MacZFS to update to v28? …


On 2012-09-20, Bjoern Kahl wrote to the zfs-macos Google Group for MacZFS:

… After the bad experience with the failed 78 release (… MacZFS 78, pool version 10 … turned out the code has serious problems to hard to fix in time) I am investigation our chances to (a) switch to current FreeBSD or (b) do a big leap forward and start over from onnv_15x (what ever number will be current, once the ->censored<- 78 is out the door.

But to try to answer your question: Well knowing I am bond to be wrong in my estimate, I would say option (b) cost 500 to 600 hours of work, may be more (just as a reference, hunting down just one particular bad Kernel Panic in 78 had cost me ~27 hours). Option (a) is probably twice as expensive in terms of work-hours, but I really do not know. …


Generally, as an end user, I don't know what's meant by uses of the expression onnv (since Oracle closed their source tree) –


– but from chat in the #illumos channel I understand that onnv_151 will never be seen.

Postscripts

At Roadmap - maczfs - Roadmap for development of MacZFS - Official Site for the Free ZFS for Mac OS - Google Project Hosting:

… The present stable release is based on onnv_74, and the next goal is onnv_77, and so on. A wild guess would then be 94 or 96. …


Dates associated with onnv_77 and onnv_96 are in 2007 and 2008 respectively – both of which were long before ZFS pool version 28 (onnv_147 in 2010) (table) – so I guess that version 28 will not be on the MacZFS roadmap in the near future, unless dramatically different approaches – such as those discussed by Bjoern Kahl – are envisaged but not yet in the wiki. MacZFS Development Overview: Development Tasks refers to a wish list and (of course) an issue tracker, where I find:


– whilst the title of that issue is outdated, it could be an umbrella for tracking.
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Kernel Debug Kit 10.8.2 build 12C60

Post by grahamperrin » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:14 am

Side note: Apple's Kernel Debug Kit for build 12C60 of the OS was not made available, to developers, until November – more than six weeks after the release of that build.

So for some of the 10.8.2-related issues in this forum, it's possible that until recently, only limited debugging was possible. Just a guess.
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by grahamperrin » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:32 pm

Under What happened to regular updates?

chipped wrote:… a post from Don or the team would be more reassuring.

I'll be requiring more functionality than the community edition offers, so I'll be looking at their paid versions when released. I'd like like to know that there is continued development and resources going into ZEVO.


https://twitter.com/GetGreenBytes/statu ... 1815794689

> … alive and well. And wait 'till you see what's next!

I might update this post with more information from people associated with GreenBytes …
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Gold, Silver, Platinum, Developer, Community

Post by grahamperrin » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:47 am

Gold, Silver, Platinum, Developer, Community

At viewtopic.php?t=1865

ed.durbrow wrote:… expectation of the Platinum …


I recall three editions in the table published by Ten's Complement before the transfer to GreenBytes:

  1. Silver
  2. Gold
  3. Platinum.

Less well publicised, but discussed before the first release of Silver, was a Developer Edition. In earlier editions of a table I recall Developer in fourth position (beyond Platinum; I understood this positioning as distant future).

Gold

Full ZFS support arrives on the Mac via third party software | MacNN (2012-02-01) discusses a feature that was planned for Gold:

  • rotating snapshots.

Whether that feature was tabled whilst ZEVO was sold by Ten's Complement, I can't recall.

Snapshots

With ZEVO Community Edition 1.1.1:


Platinum

Mac OS X gets ZFS after all--but not from Apple | Deep Tech - CNET News and Ex-Apple engineer emits Zevo ZFS for Mac OS • The Register (2012-02-01) remind us of features that were planned for Platinum:

  1. support for multiple drives
  2. mirroring
  3. RAID-Z
  4. a GUI to manage storage options
  5. de-duplication.

For zero cost in ZEVO Community Edition 1.1.1 we have at least (a), (b) and (c).

For (d) I welcome contributions under the following topic:


For (e) it will make sense to have something better than the dedup that is traditionally associated with ZFS.

Beyond those five: for zero cost with GreenBytes we enjoy at least one feature was never publicly discussed before the transfer …

GreenBytes ZEVO Community Edition 1.1.1 is similar to the Developer Edition that was planned by Ten's Complement.

Historical

ZEVO (Silver Edition) release notes
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by Kocoman » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:00 am

Does anyone have a full version of Zevo Silver?

I tried the 1.0.3 updater but it says

ZEVO Not Installed

This updater can only update existing ZEVO installations
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steering

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:48 pm

Kocoman, I suggest a separate topic in the troubleshooting area – please include your reasons for requiring Silver; it's significantly outdated. (There's the license agreement to be respected, so including your reasons will be key to gaining the most appropriate response.)

Thanks …
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The 2012-05-09 beta from Ten's Complement

Post by grahamperrin » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:42 am

ZEVO_BETA_2012-5-9.dmg
ZEVO - Beta 2012.05.09
Install ZEVO Beta.pkg


Someone asked about Silver Edition in relation to the 2012-05-09 beta. As far as I can tell – without ploughing through everything within the .pkg – this particular beta was not classed as Silver Edition. Certainly there's no mention of Silver in the license.
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