USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ferebee » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:03 am

I finally got hold of an EXSYS EX-1188HMS (sorry, 1189 was a typo), which uses the Genesys Logic GL3520. The hubs mentioned by ilovezfs sound like good candidates as well, but don't appear to be available in Germany.

Currently I have been running diglloydtools DiskTester for over 24 hours on an HFS volume: Mac mini Server Late 2012, EX-1188HMS USB 3.0 hub, "Intenso Memory Box" drive, which uses a Seagate 3 TB ST3000DM001-9YN166 and JMicron USB 3.0 bridge (0x152d:0x0539).

DiskTester has been doing read/write/verify with various data patterns over the middle 1.7 TB of the drive and is reporting very consistent data rates of 160 MB/s write and 110 MB/s read. No errors, and the connection seems stable.

This looks promising. Next I'll try connecting a mixed bag of USB 3.0 drives, building a ZFS volume, and hammering that for several days.

Here's how the hub reports in System Profiler.

USB3.0 Hub:

Product ID: 0x0612
Vendor ID: 0x05e3 (Genesys Logic, Inc.)
Version: 90.14
Speed: Up to 5 Gb/sec
Manufacturer: GenesysLogic
Location ID: 0x14b00000 / 4
Current Available (mA): 900
Current Required (mA): 36
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ferebee » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:31 am

I'd be very interested to hear from anybody using one of the Thunderbolt-to-USB3 solutions. ZFS over USB 3.0 has been working well for me with single drives off a Mac mini Server Late 2012.

I'd like to replace my desktop machine with a 2011 iMac, because I can get a great deal on a 27" and won't need a hairdryer to do the homebrew Fusion Drive upgrade first described by @jollyjinx. USB 3.0 would be a cost-effective way to get high-performance external storage.
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:58 am

ferebee wrote:I'd be very interested to hear from anybody using one of the Thunderbolt-to-USB3 solutions. ZFS over USB 3.0 has been working well for me with single drives off a Mac mini Server Late 2012.

I'd like to replace my desktop machine with a 2011 iMac, because I can get a great deal on a 27" and won't need a hairdryer to do the homebrew Fusion Drive upgrade first described by @jollyjinx. USB 3.0 would be a cost-effective way to get high-performance external storage.


ferebee wrote:I'd like to replace my desktop machine with a 2011 iMac, because I can get a great deal on a 27" and won't need a hairdryer to do the homebrew Fusion Drive upgrade first described by @jollyjinx. USB 3.0 would be a cost-effective way to get high-performance external storage.

If I were you, I'd wait for the "Retina iMac" whenever that finally comes out. Will you be saving more than $250 on the 2011, given that the cheapest Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 is $250 by Matrox, though you'd probably end up wanting to go with the Belkin anyway for $300? Also, FYI Tim Cook promised new Mac Pro's later this year: http://www.macworld.com/article/1167247 ... _2013.html

Also don't forget that Thunderbolt can go to PCIe, SAS, SATA, etc. as well: https://thunderbolttechnology.net/produ ... to_one=All which opens up a whole other category of multidisk storage bays with which to use ZEVO.

In any event, I too am quite interested in anyone's experience with the various Thunderbolt docks/adapters for USB 3.0
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ferebee » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:31 pm

@ilovezfs Yes, I can get the 2011 for about half the price of the 2012... I'd wait for Retina, but I think the "Mac Pro II" is next in line for Retina, bringing the price of 4K resolution down from EIZO at $25K to "normal" pro levels. It will be a while longer before it reaches the iMac.

Anyway, I've run several passes of diglloyd Disktester over a 1.7 TB test file through the GL3520 hub. Aborting the test wedged the Mac, but it turns out that I now have a 1.7 TB file on HFS+ that simply cannot be deleted with "rm". Apparently, this is normal: http://serverfault.com/questions/430324 ... sk-is-full

For comparison, I generated a 1 TB file of random data on a ZFS single-disk volume, also through the GL3520 hub, duplicated it with "cp", and then ran "zpool scrub". Everything completed with no errors, and deleting the file with "rm" took a few minutes, but completed successfully and didn't wedge the machine.

Next up is a multi-disk raidz2 volume, which I will fill to capacity and scrub, but right now it is

THUMBS UP Genesys Logic GL3520!

(And also ZFS of course.)
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ilovezfs » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:02 pm

ferebee wrote:Yes, I can get the 2011 for about half the price of the 2012

Sounds like a great deal on the 2011.

I found another Thunderbolt dock, called "The Echo 15 Thunderbolt Dock." This one has 4 USB 3.0 slots, plus many other ports:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo1 ... tdock.html

There are a few different versions of it, ranging in price from $400 to $650:
https://secure1.sonnettech.com/index.ph ... 68f1c60d48
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ferebee » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:34 am

The Sonnet Echo 15 sounds nice (though I'll never need a DVD drive again if I can help it), but like almost all these docks, it's not shipping yet... Thunderbolt docks seem to be a vaporware category unto themselves.

If my tests with the GL3520 7-port USB 3.0 don't turn up any problems, I think I'll go with the Matrox DS1, which is shipping and considerably cheaper. It has some drawbacks and really seems a bit half-assed:

- only one USB 3.0 port (and two USB 2.0 ports, why?)
- DVI is only single-link, max. resolution 1920 x 1200
- only a single Thunderbolt port, no daisy-chaining.

But as long as the USB hub does its job, the other limitations are not big issues for a 27" iMac. I wouldn't want to use the DS 1 with a MacBook Air.

Of note, the USB 3.0 port on the DS 1 seems to come off a Fresco Logic FL1100, which is natively supported by OS X 10.8.2+. (See the screenshot at http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57 ... bolt-dock/) So, at least there should be no skanky 3rd-party drivers to deal with.
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ilovezfs » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:44 pm

ferebee wrote:If my tests with the GL3520 7-port USB 3.0 don't turn up any problems, I think I'll go with the Matrox DS1

Also, no Firewire port.

I'd wait for the Belkin with 3 x USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt passthrough. It was being promised for Q12013: http://www.belkin.com/us/pressreleases/8798255940668

I doubt it will be much longer.

I refuse to purchase any Thunderbolt device that selfishly makes itself the end of a Thunderbolt daisy chain.
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ferebee » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:06 am

Considering Belkin announced its dock in September 2011 and promised in February to ship "next week", I'm not holding my breath.

To me, the Matrox DS 1 is an expensive Thunderbolt-to-USB3 adapter. Too bad Apple doesn't make one - it would be as big as my thumb and cost $29.

Unfortunately, I just found this: http://forum.matrox.com/ds1/viewtopic.php?p=621
and this: http://forum.matrox.com/ds1/viewtopic.php?t=287

As I read it, USB 3.0 over Thunderbolt did not work (consistently, which is as good as not working at all) in OS X 10.8.2. Matrox worked with Apple to fix the issues, and in 10.8.3 one set of problems were fixed and drives reportedly no longer spontaneously drop off the bus.

While 10.8.3 was supposed to fix all the USB 3.0 over Thunderbolt issues, sleep/wake cycles still don't work correctly, especially when unplugging/replugging Thunderbolt from the Mac.

To me, it sounds like the problems are, in large part, Apple's fault, and this would explain why Matrox is the only manufacturer who has actually shipped anything in this space, and why all the others have been delayed, some of them for a year or more.

Still, there's hope: a new Thunderbolt Display is, I would say, overdue, with a razor's edge laminated display, Magsafe 2, and of course USB 3.0, along with a new release of OS X that makes it all work. (10.8.4 or 10.9?)

Once those drivers are finally done, can the $29 TB-to-USB3 adapters be far behind?
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:53 am

Ferebee, I figured out another solution, which might be significantly more robust.

Buy the OWC Mercury Helios PCIe Expansion Chassis for $380, which is availble for same day shipping now (there are other more expensive Thunderbolt-to-PCIe options, but this one looks solid):
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderb ... ry_Helios/

Buy a compatible PCIe to USB 3.0 adapter. Here's the compatibility list:
http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/T ... atibility/

CalDigit SuperSpeed PCI Express Card (has 2 USB 3.0 ports) is on the compatibility list and is $88 (same day shipping):
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/CalDigit/U3HOSTADPTR/

Alternatively, (also on the compatibility list) you could buy CalDigit FASTA-6GU3, which has two USB 3.0 ports AND two eSATA 6Gb/s ports for $140 (same day shipping):
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/CalDigit/FASTA6GU3/

I would be very surprised if this solution did not work well. And for $468 or $520, it better! But you actually get something useful for your money. There are all sorts of different PCIe cards you could buy. Since Thunderbolt *IS* PCIe, you're basically doing an end run around all of these manufacturers, who are reinventing the PCIe card mousetrap with every new Thunderbolt adapter they make.

I doubt a $29 Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 from Apple will come any time soon. The technologies are pretty different, so piping one into the other is not a simple operation. Also, it is not in Apple's interest to make it easy for people to solely use USB 3.0 devices. There are so few PCs that support Thunderbolt, with the result that every Thunderbolt device you buy binds you a little bit more tightly to the Apple ecosystem. Even though they added USB 3.0 ports to the Macs, try finding a USB 3.0 hard drive in any Apple Retail Store.

You know what would be really awesome? If Apple would make an affordable Thunderbolt to 10-gigabit Ethernet adapter. That would make me do a little happy dance!

As for Belkin's delays, Belkin was originally planning the dock to have USB 2.0 ports only, and then changed their mind and reengineered to have USB 3.0 ports instead.

I suspect you're right about a new Thunderbolt Display. Perhaps that's what will debut alongside the new Mac Pros.
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Re: USB 3.0 hub recommendations?

Post by ferebee » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:38 am

@ilovezfs I did consider using an external PCIe chassis, though I wonder how much difference that would make, as the various Thunderbolt docks presumably do the same type of Thunderbolt-to-PCIe conversion internally. As for the card, I would probably try a 4-port one based off the Fresco Logic FL1100, which appears to have native support starting with 10.8.2, as I noted above. The CalDigit card seems to require 3rd-party drivers, which I never feel very good about.

This card http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00B6ZCNGM only seems to be available in Europe, but there must be others like it.

OTOH, the cheapest solution might actually be a Sonnet Echo Pro ExpressCard 2.0 adapter with an ExpressCard USB 3.0 card...

Regarding the hypothetical $29 Thunderbolt-to-USB3 adapter - that should be a straightforward derivative of the TB-to-GigE and TB-to-FireWire800 adapters, don't you think?
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