GreenBytes, we DEMAND an update.

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Re: Orientation

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:51 am

grahamperrin wrote:I don't claim authority. Please refrain from shouting. As I stated politely months ago, I do not wish to be a moderator here.

As the subject said, the post was orientation. Discussion of MacZFS prototype – of its safety, stability and so on – is best in the MacZFS area.

"Best" depends on your purpose. If the purpose is to discuss the current and future potential of the experimental generation of MacZFS, the prototype, which is at pool version 5000, and has backwards compatibility with ZEVO (pool version 28)--to solve the problem all ZEVO users face or will face--namely, the fact that ZEVO is entirely broken on Mavericks until or unless someone, apparently not GreenBytes, is able to fix it--then the ZEVO forum is, in fact, best. Why? Because, as shocking and horrifying as it may be to you, not all ZEVO users are logged into the #mac-zfs IRC channel all the time, as both you and I are. And a pointer to the MacZFS website, mailing lists, and IRC channel is an insufficient substitute for a proper discussion here, where most ZEVO users will likely turn for such information, and where, one hopes--unless you succeed in derailing it--they will find a (semi-)permanent discussion of whether and to what extent MacZFS, amongst other alternatives to ZEVO, will solve their ZEVO-on-Mavericks problem. I, for one, do not want to be answering the same question over and over from ZEVO users in the #mac-zfs IRC channel, nor do I think it is fair for you to impose that work on the developers in the #mac-zfs channel, nor do I believe you are able to shoulder that burden entirely on your own. It would be much better for ZEVO users, as they each discover their shared problem at a different time, to find those answers here, and then, if upon reading those answers, they have further interest, to head over to the MacZFS website, mailing lists, and #mac-zfs IRC channel at their leisure. One must be entirely daft to expect any more than a small percentage of ZEVO users will ever read this thread and, as a consequence of your efforts to influence their behavior, install an IRC client and join us in the #mac-zfs IRC channel, and then get full answers to the same exact questions they all have. Until someone from GreenBytes objects, I hope the users of this forum ignore your unhelpful interventions in this matter and proceed with asking and answering whatever questions regarding ZEVO vs. MacZFS, and ZEVO vs. whatever, they have, as they each try to decide how they want to solve their ZEVO on Mavericks problem. Given that you have no ability (especially given the non-disclosure agreement to which you have subjected yourself) to solve that problem for them in a way that will effectively work for every individual and her circumstances, I suggest that you let people problem solve around the ZEVO-on-Mavericks issue here however they please.
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Orientation

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:40 am

It's not daft to expect people with an interest in MacZFS to visit the MacZFS home page and from there, follow the links to the two groups where MacZFS is discussed.

This topic was intended for a status update from GreenBytes, on ZEVO.

If people prefer to not discuss MacZFS in the MacZFS area, then there are ZEVO topics such as Compatibility with other ZFS systems.

To discuss MacZFS without reference to compatibility with ZEVO, it does make greatest sense to discuss MacZFS in the MacZFS area.

I, for one, do not want to be answering the same question over and over from ZEVO users in the #mac-zfs IRC channel


Please consider an addition to http://code.google.com/p/maczfs/wiki/FAQ

derailing


If it's derailing to steer users, or potential users, of MacZFS to the MacZFS area: you should be concerned about the rails of communication in that area.

One of the reasons that I prefer to not moderate here is, to speak freely. The humour in irc://chat.freenode.net/#mac-zfs is welcome. The occasional animosity from a community that should pride itself on openness is not an incentive for people to participate.
Last edited by grahamperrin on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GreenBytes, we DEMAND an update.

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:57 am

You have no right to expect anything of anyone here other than courtesy. Some people may not be interested in visiting other sources to solve their ZEVO-on-Mavericks problem besides the ZEVO forum. Pointing out that some other thread HERE might be better than this one is a nice dodge, but entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
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Orientation

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:59 am

ilovezfs wrote:ZEVO-on-Mavericks


Should ZEVO work ok with Mavericks?
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Re: Orientation

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:20 am

grahamperrin wrote:
I, for one, do not want to be answering the same question over and over from ZEVO users in the #mac-zfs IRC channel
Please consider an addition to http://code.google.com/p/maczfs/wiki/FAQ

I'll leave that to you.

grahamperrin wrote:If it's derailing to steer users, or potential users, of MacZFS to the MacZFS area: you should be concerned about the rails of communication in that area.

By "derail" I mean your effort to silence every detailed discussion of MacZFS on the ZEVO forum. I am speaking entirely of what conversations do or do not take place here as a consequence of your behavior. And indeed I am "concerned" about the "rails of communication" in the path to somewhere else. Not every user will make it somewhere else. There will not be a 100% click-through rate to some other place no matter how much linking and steering elsewhere you do here, and hence you are de facto censoring information for those who choose not to go somewhere else to follow-up, but who would read the information here.

grahamperrin wrote:One of the reasons that I prefer to not moderate here is, to speak freely. The humour in irc://chat.freenode.net/#mac-zfs is welcome. The occasional animosity from a community that should pride itself on openness is not an incentive for people to participate.

I will leave it to the other members of this forum to determine who is encouraging openness in this matter.
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Re: Orientation

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:46 am

ilovezfs wrote:… effort to silence every detailed discussion of MacZFS on the ZEVO forum. … 


MacZFS is not ZEVO.

Simply: make an effort to encourage discussion of MacZFS in the MacZFS area.

I'm extraordinarily disappointed that you try to paint a picture of me as someone who discourages things.

As I said in IRC, when I pleaded for us to both stop it, negativity breeds negativity. As you said in IRC, you're having fun.

If it pleases the MacZFS community to find fun in negativity, I'm almost lost for words.

… nor do I think it is fair for you to impose that work on the developers in the #mac-zfs channel …


Asking questions should be allowed. There's no imposition.

From private communications, individuals should know that I'm extraordinarily appreciative of their work.

In public posts such as this I prefer to not show favouritism. I'm truly grateful for everyone's hard work, but I'm intolerant of rudeness.

… logged into the #mac-zfs IRC channel all the time, as both you and I are. …


That's misleading, and you know it.

You may not know that I have seen some shocking things said in that channel after people have been driven away by unfriendly responses.

If it's truly fun for you, keep pressing the negative buttons. I'm only human. If pushed far enough I'll come up with something that people in the MacZFS community might find not funny.
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Re: Orientation

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:01 am

grahamperrin wrote:MacZFS is not ZEVO. ... Simply: make an effort to encourage discussion of MacZFS in the MacZFS area.

And apparently you shall continue to make that effort wherever you see the opening. It's amazing how much good that does for the ZEVO community.
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Effort

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:07 am

Some individuals in the MacZFS community began negative efforts, with divisive effects, long ago. Before ZEVO was transferred to GreenBytes.

My presence in both ZEVO and MacZFS communities is intended for the good of both communities.

It's simple: if you choose to paint a twisted picture whilst pressing buttons to anger me, you'll get angry representations.

If your anger stems from answering questions …

ilovezfs wrote:
grahamperrin wrote:
ilovezfs wrote:I, for one, do not want to be answering the same question over and over from ZEVO users in the #mac-zfs IRC channel
Please consider an addition to http://code.google.com/p/maczfs/wiki/FAQ

I'll leave that to you.


To avoid misunderstanding: I am not an editor of the MacZFS wiki.

Please name the frequent question, in an appropriate area. Then let's leave it for one of the five MacZFS project members to edit the wiki.
Last edited by grahamperrin on Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Effort

Post by ilovezfs » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:22 am

grahamperrin wrote:My presence in both ZEVO and MacZFS communities is intended for the good of both communities.

Intended is the operative word.
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Positive intentions

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:28 am

That's my intention, and it is positive.

If you choose to doubt the good intentions – if through your own negativity and distrust you choose to paint it as something negative – it's not good for either community.
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