editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by grahamperrin » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:24 pm

viewtopic.php?p=4948#p4948

NakkiNyan wrote:… If they are giving it away free …


The tweet about letting Apple have code does not suggest free; it was in response to someone who is willing to pay.

In another post:

NakkiNyan wrote:… Green bytes does not care …


From the e-mails that I received, I did not get that impression.

Michael Robinson, VP, Marketing for GreenBytes wrote today:

I apologize for the radio silence re: ZEVO. I know everyone is waiting for some news on the future of the product. We are lining a few more things up internally, and you should be seeing a news story on GreenBytes and the future of ZEVO very soon - likely within the next week or so. Many thanks for your patience.
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by NakkiNyan » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:36 am

grahamperrin wrote:The tweet about letting Apple have code does not suggest free; it was in response to someone who is willing to pay.

Actually it does imply free, if it was up for sale to Apple he would have said "we will happily sell the ZEVO source to Apple".
If you ask someone for something :
"Hey, can I have this?" > implies free
"Hey, can you sell me this" > implies cash transaction
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by ilovezfs » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:44 am

NakkiNyan wrote:
grahamperrin wrote:The tweet about letting Apple have code does not suggest free; it was in response to someone who is willing to pay.

Actually it does imply free, if it was up for sale to Apple he would have said "we will happily sell the ZEVO source to Apple".
If you ask someone for something :
"Hey, can I have this?" > implies free
"Hey, can you sell me this" > implies cash transaction

His tweet implies
1) He would be willing to license, sell, or give away the source code to Apple. It does not imply whether he would be willing to transfer ownership of the software, whether he would or would not charge for a transfer of ownership, or whether he would or would not charge for a license
2) He does not believe Apple has any interest in the code
3) He does not believe GreenBytes will be able to make any significant money off of ZEVO
4) He does not see a hypothetical decision by Apple to bring ZFS to OS X natively as any sort of competitive threat
5) There has been no discussion with Apple at all, otherwise he would not be discussing this publicly
6) He likes ZFS
7) He does not believe GreenBytes has any special technical capability to further ZEVO and he believes Apple would be better suited to the work

The fact that he was responding to a tweet that mentioned paying money for Apple supported ZFS has zero relevance to interpreting whether he would intend to sell the code to Apple or give it to them for free.
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Pleas for open source

Post by grahamperrin » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:29 am

At viewtopic.php?p=5015#p5015

… better for everyone, if ZEVO were to consider going open source. …


+1

grahamperrin wrote:I'd like to see more of ZEVO open source in due course. … The big pictures probably include a wish to make technical debt explicit before going open, and so on …
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by BjoKa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:09 pm

Speaking about various versions of ZFS on Mac, the free, Open Source MacZFS has released an update of its old MacZFS-74 a couple of weeks ago. Here "old" really means old, old as in "pool version 8". Development of that branch continues slowly, with only one active developer left. Next target is pool version 10 (or maybe 11) somewhere in mid summer. This MacZFS fully supports PPC, i386 and x86_64 on Mac OS 10.5 "Leopard" and all newer, publicly available versions (current up to 10.8 -- the even older "Tiger" 10.4 could probably be added, if enough demand is voiced and a couple of people volunteer to do the needed testing).

A newer port, MacZFS-ng (or "ZFS-OSX" as working title), based on the latest ZoL release (ZoL == ZFS on Linux) is in active development by a small team and expected to mature around end of this year. Current status is, that basic read/write for files and directories works, but extended attributes, support for Apple specific functions like Carbon APIs, Time Machine etc. is under development. Currently tested on 10.7 and 10.8 (tests with 10.9 Previews are under investigation). Also the current builds are debug builds and panic frequently.

If GreenBytes really wants to give away the ZEVO source, we would be definitively interested. (We == the developers behind MacZFS and MacZFS-ng.) Developing the free MacZFS since three years, we are confident to have the experience to maintain and further develop an open-sourced ZEVO successor.

Best
Björn
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by ilovezfs » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:24 pm

BjoKa wrote:If GreenBytes really wants to give away the ZEVO source, we would be definitively interested. (We == the developers behind MacZFS and MacZFS-ng.) Developing the free MacZFS since three years, we are confident to have the experience to maintain and further develop an open-sourced ZEVO successor.

This would be an amazing outcome. And if GreenBytes wanted, I imagine they could sell support even if ZEVO is open sourced, similar to how NetAFP handles things with Netatalk: http://www.netafp.com/pricing/
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Silver Edition is outdated and unsuitable

Post by grahamperrin » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:33 pm

grahamperrin wrote:… I recommend very strongly against working with Silver.


https://twitter.com/zigmoo/status/344573727503167489 is noted. With that outdated version of ZEVO, crashes of the pane with pre-release builds of OS X 10.8 were well known (reported whilst beta testing).

It's no surprise that the outdated pane crashes with a pre-release build of OS X 10.9.

I should repeat the recommendation to please not use any outdated version of ZEVO.
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by monkeyfoahead » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:21 pm

ilovezfs wrote:
BjoKa wrote:If GreenBytes really wants to give away the ZEVO source, we would be definitively interested. (We == the developers behind MacZFS and MacZFS-ng.) Developing the free MacZFS since three years, we are confident to have the experience to maintain and further develop an open-sourced ZEVO successor.

This would be an amazing outcome. And if GreenBytes wanted, I imagine they could sell support even if ZEVO is open sourced, similar to how NetAFP handles things with Netatalk: http://www.netafp.com/pricing/


This would be glorious
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Re: Brewing with ZEVO

Post by ilovezfs » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:47 pm

grahamperrin wrote:At viewtopic.php?p=4568#p4568 from a moderator:
jhartley wrote:… Hold tight folks, there is something brewing with ZEVO that I'm not at liberty to talk about at the moment.

As much I'd like to know what's brewing, and as much as I like open source, I also like periods of secrecy. Without this, there'd be no surprise …

Unfortunately it seems this optimism was rather misplaced. Unless I'm missing something, all we have to hope for at this point is that the code be set free of its proprietary shackles and not-so-benign neglect.
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Re: editions and versions of ZEVO, community and open source

Post by grahamperrin » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:29 pm

I'd love open source but it's reasonable for GreenBytes to aim to sell to Apple or whoever.
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