Trash or Versions not available

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Trash or Versions not available

Post by TomUnderhill » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:28 am

I have now installed Zevo on three different systems and do not seem to have Trash or versions support. Deletes from ZFS are "instant" and "permanent". These ZFS installations also do not support versions in Pages, Keynote or Numbers with 10.8.x. For example, when I close a Numbers file on my boot SSD, the program automatically saves the current version. Closing the same file on the zpool shows a dialog that the file system does not support versions. Deleting a file from the SSD moves it to the trash whereas deleting a file from the zpool shows a dialog confirming an instant delete.

Not that I think this matters, but all of the installs have been from the same download of Zevo version 1.0 then upgraded to 1.1.1.

The installs have been on the following systems:
    MacPro 3,1
      24GB RAM
      128GB SSD JHFS+ boot drive
      3x2TB HDDs + 1x64GB SSD in RAIDZ(1)
      The MacPro is my daily driver.

    13" rMBP
      8GB RAM
      256GB SSD JHFS+ boot drive
      1x3GB HDD via FireWire on a Thunderbolt display

    24" iMac
      8GB RAM
      500GB HDD JHFS+ boot drive
      1x3GB HDD via FireWire
I'm using the external 3TB FireWire drives for near-line, long-term storage for these two machines to avoid bit rot. As budget allows over the next few months I will be adding a second 3TB FireWire drive to each system as mirrors for full redundancy, integrity and such.

I'm writing this post from my 17" MBP and do not have direct access to any of the machines at the moment. I have the time to post, and no interruptions. For the remainder of the discussion I will focus on the MacPro, assuming that I can replicate any changes to Zevo as needed to the other systems.

I created the zpool with the following command:

Code: Select all
sudo zpool create -f -o ashift=12 -O casesensitivity=insensitive -O normalization=formD -O compression=on zRAID raidz /dev/disk0 /dev/disk1 /dev/disk2


As I type this post, I'm wondering if I need to bless the zpool with CoreStorage to enable versions and/or the trash.

Please let me know of any additional information needed to help diagnose the situation. I'll be happy to provide it on Monday morning when I get back into the office.
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by grahamperrin » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:42 am

Versions

Please see permanent version storage on ZFS.

Trash

Whatever the cause of the problem, it should not be necessary to apply CoreStorage.

Take a Console view of all messages before, during and after your next deletion from the affected volume. Anything significant?

A long shot … if you're happy to own everything in the pool, and if you have not already done so:

Code: Select all
sudo chown -R yourusername /Volumes/zRAID


I don't imagine that Mountain Lion will present the deletion dialogue where the
.Trash
or
.Trashes
at the root of the file system is/are not owned by the logged in user, but if the disk is not shared etc.: attention to ownership should do no harm.
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by si-ghan-bi » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:47 pm

I changed the ownership immediately to RW for everyone because I was not able to put file on the pool and I have never had any issue with Trash.
The problem with File versions is known, as linked by grahamperrin
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by TomUnderhill » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:29 pm

si-ghan-bi wrote:I changed the ownership immediately to RW for everyone because I was not able to put file on the pool and I have never had any issue with Trash.


I also changed pool permissions immediately after I built it. When the drive mounted on my desktop, I selected it and then checked it with Get Info. Saw the permissions problem right then in the info panel, unlocked it, granted RW permissions across the board and applied the change to all enclosed folders.

grahamperrin wrote:A long shot … if you're happy to own everything in the pool


I guess I'll go ahead and attempt to own what I thought I already owned, again!
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by TomUnderhill » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:39 pm

grahamperrin wrote:Versions

Please see permanent version storage on ZFS.

Pretty much what I expected. I know Apple pushes a lot of limits to make everything OS X does appear "easy".

We power users bitch and moan because Apple does not officially support "some 'gotta-have-it' OS X feature" with non-Apple hardware. Then they come along and do something unexpected like
  • Fusion Drive (perhaps why trim not supported on non-Apple SSDs?) or
  • Power Nap (why 2012 MacBook Air machines have problems remaining attached to older wifi routers)

Versions was more of a concern for the less-technical around me who can really benefit from versions

(wait... that's not a 1D10T user over there... that's a mirror reflecting me!)
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by TomUnderhill » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:43 pm

grahamperrin wrote:Take a Console view of all messages before, during and after your next deletion from the affected volume. Anything significant?

Delted three files in a row, received three confirmation
[2012-11-05112241]  Finder-Finder.png
Finder error upon file delete from ZEVO pool
[2012-11-05112241] Finder-Finder.png (27.65 KiB) Viewed 91 times

and found three duplicate errors in console:
Code: Select all
Locum: Console connection with distnoted server was invalid


Here is current volume ownership:
Code: Select all
drwxrwxrwx@ 14 root  wheel  16 Nov  5 11:24 zRAID

Here is the command that created my current zpool:
Code: Select all
sudo zpool create -f -o ashift=12 -O casesensitivity=insensitive -O normalization=formD -O compression=on zRAID raidz /dev/disk0 /dev/disk1 /dev/disk2

I must admit something at this point: my current situation sits on a ZFS volume created after reading the current Quick Start Guide, followed by much head scratching and trying to second-guess a Guide to start quickly that actually made the starting much slower. Ugh. Enough of that.

I've been thinking of tossing my current pool, getting one additional 2TB HDD and creating a stripe of two two-drive mirrors or vice-versa (a mirror of two two-drive stripes).

The volume will run from my MacPro's four internal drive bays. Which would be
  • generally speedier
  • more resilient to drive failure
Look forward to your suggestions. (hint: I'm building the strategy section for the new Quick Start Guide)
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by grahamperrin » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:15 pm

Reading this alongside the other issues reported, my guess is that a reinstall of the OS (using the most recent installer from the App Store) could provide a relatively quick fix, but that would leave me wondering about causes of the problems.

Try a repair of permissions with Disk Utility.

Whilst Disk Utility runs, glance at the answer to What does the process 'Locum' do? and the man page for distnoted(8).

Following the repair, if problems persist: maybe add a user account to the OS then use that clean account (plus appropriate privileges in the ZFS file system) see whether problems are reproducible .
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by TomUnderhill » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:06 pm

I guess that page referring to Locum also refers to people like you and I. We handle processes most folks are not privileged enough to accomplish. Cool, a new title for a business card.

Code: Select all
diskutil repairVolume /dev/disk5

errors out with
Code: Select all
Error starting file system repair for disk5 zRAID: Invalid request (-69886)
when it attempts to repair the ZFS structure. I receive the same error in a less courteous manner from Disk Utility.
[2012-11-05010246]  Disk Utility-zRAID.png
Verify failure.
[2012-11-05010246] Disk Utility-zRAID.png (163.11 KiB) Viewed 88 times

I'm willing to try the ML reinstall and lose the "history" of the problem.

Also willing to destroy and rebuild the pool. Which is your suggestion, a mirror of stripes or a stripe of mirrors?
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startup volume permissions

Post by grahamperrin » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:36 am

Sorry, I meant a repair of a permissions of the startup volume.

(I still take the broad view that this problem may be not specific to the ZFS file system or ZEVO.)
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Re: Trash or Versions not available

Post by TomUnderhill » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:02 pm

Making Disk Utility tackle a ZFS drive... I thought you knew how to do something I didn't!

I try to clean house monthly or so... including permissions, caches (including kernel and app caches), etc.

But, for you Graham, I'll accelerate things and see what they get. Thanks for the clarification.
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